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《双清录》精彩对谈——应该在多大尺度上谈产业组织和规划? – 北京双创街控股有限公司
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data-elementor-type="header" data-elementor-id="1883" class="elementor elementor-1883 elementor-location-header" data-elementor-settings="[]">

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菜单

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城市创新发展服务商

Urban Innovation Development Service Provider


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《双清录》精彩对谈——应该在多大尺度上谈产业组织和规划?

本期《双清录》精彩对谈,邀请清华大学建筑设计院产业园区研究中心主任廉毅锐与清控科创总裁、双创街控股创始人程方,畅谈关于产业组织、产业规划和未来园区面貌的那些事儿!

>点击这里观看完整视频

(以下为对谈内容文字整理)

1、应该在多大尺度上谈产业组织和产业规划?

程方:去年廉老师在提产业生态学的时候,我们在这个基础上提到了产业类型学,然后又提到了一个点——究竟应该在多大尺度上谈产业组织和产业规划?

我只能说没有最优答案,但是有一个大多数情况都适用的答案。这就是跟中国近30年的发展相关,著名经济学教授张五常曾提到,中国的经济发展是由县处级领导推动的,也就是中国的县域竞争带来了过去30年中国经济的高速成长,这个在一定程度上回答了在多大的尺度上谈产业组织,我认为是同样的道理,应该是在县域这样一个空间尺度上,在这样一个行政权力能够覆盖的资源的范畴上来谈产业组织才是有效的。

廉毅锐:产业规划面临的环境日趋复杂,很难用一个简单的办法来推衍,我比较看好地级市。

如果把一个产业规划仅仅定义为我们在短期内引入了并且短期内在运营这样一个情况,那在县里面、地市里面都能做到。但是我并不认为这么微观就说明产业规划就是合理的,因为它存在一个竞争。这个县想引入一个产业的时候,就会面临周边县的竞争,这是我认为产业规划里面最大的一个挑战,就是产业资源有限,现在大家都在争抢产业资源。

程方:产业级的营销是在区县、园区层面,刚刚廉老师提到的地级市,我认为在地级市的这个尺度上应该做的是城市能级的营销。

城市首先分层, 特大城市、一线、新一线、二线、百强县市是有一定道理的,其实是在宏观层面上表示了这个城市能级。能级包含什么,人才、资本、市场、资源、行政权力、自然环境的容量等等,它是一个综合体从而形成了城市的能级,而这个能级代表着对要素的吸附能力。

这几年有个比较成功的案例就是成都,成都在成为所谓的第四级以前,成都的产业很少拿得出手去和北上广深单项pk,但是成都因为它的自然环境,因为它的人文,这几年充分利用的互联网,把它的城市能级提高了,而不是在某一个维度上去竞争。这样的能级提升,带来了对资源极强的吸附能力,也就意味着这个地方具备更多的养分,这个雨林就能长出各种它想要的东西。

廉毅锐:程方总那时候在做“互联网+”的研究的时候,我跟他差不多同期在做一个课题叫做“互联网+下的科技园区趋势”,是中关村委托的。当时我得出来的是“分散、共享、小型化、碎片化”,程方总得出来的是以传统的生产要素为和核心的聚集,我们俩个一个想要更分散,一个想要更聚集。现在看起来,我们两个应该再谈一谈,也许有中间的那条道路,既不是那么聚集,也不是那么分散。

这两年,我通过实践发现,把产业分散到镇和村是有难度的,因为涉及到了资本和人力资源。在县这一级,因为拥有土地,还有良好的政府推动力,这是有可能的。但是也存在一个问题就是竞争,城际竞争。我们所面临的是,你以为吸引来的是企业,但实际上最终你吸引来的是什么样的人口是未来产业发展的重心。

2、未来园区的面貌是什么样的?

廉毅锐:我以前在文章里描述过一二三四代园区跟城市的关系,基本像是卫星、然后陨石、然后包围、然后变成卫星城或者是双极,逐渐和城市贴合。所以我觉得,未来园区将会是从点变成城市的分中心这样的一种存在。

程方:未来产业对空间的依赖是会逐渐减弱的, 对于基础设施、配套的依赖是会减弱的,因为这些都已经逐渐成熟了,真正决定产业去留的反而是市场、技术、人才、资本、以及一些行政资源会决定产业的去留,这个时候空间对于产业的成分反而是最弱的,在这个情况下,一部分产业在升级过程中不会转移,而是填充已有的空间,完成过去空间的升级。

我期待的未来产业园区就是廉老师描绘的伦敦的那个样子——产业、城市、空间、园区、人口、商业配套已经没有很清晰的界限。分不清楚哪里是园区,但是我们把它们放到一起去看,它的成分比例都是非常合适的,这个就是我期待的未来的园区的样子。

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